An Interview with H.H. Lungtok Dawa Dhargyal Rinpoche
The 34th Menri Trizin at Serenity Ridge, June 29, 2019
The Voice of Clear Light team was very grateful for the chance to speak with His Holiness one evening during the 2019 Summer Retreat at Serenity Ridge. His warmth and kindness, along with his openness to all of our questions, was natural and also remarkable. We give special thanks to Tsering Wangmo for translating during the interview, to His Holiness's attendant, Geshe Tsewang Ngodup, for translation assistance, and to Melissa Katz for her photographs taken during this interview.
His Holiness was selected as the 34th Menri Trizin, the spiritual leader of the Bön tradition and abbot of Menri Monastery in Dolanji, India, on January 1, 2018, following the passing of the 33rd Menri Trizin, His Holiness Lungtok Tenpai Nyima Rinpoche, the previous September. In February 2018, Bönpos worldwide joined in celebrating the selection of the 34th Menri Trizin at Menri Monastery. On September 6, 2018, a formal grand enthronement ceremony took place at Menri.
In recognition of his enthronement and as a way for Western sanghas to deepen connection with His Holiness, Geshe Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche extended the invitation for His Holiness to teach in Europe and North America, including at Ligmincha centers in Poland, Mexico and the United States. This was His Holiness’s first trip to the West after his enthronement and the largest tour that has ever been organized for a Menri Trizin.
VOCL: Can you please tell us what area of Tibet you are from and what your early family life was like?
His Holiness: I am from the village of Shar khog in the Amdo Province of Tibet. I was born in an ordinary middle-class family. Both of my parents are still alive and in their 60s. I am one of six siblings: two older brothers and two older sisters, and one younger brother. One of my older brothers passed away last year. The other older brother is now the pillar of the family, and he is taking care of my family right now. My two sisters are married and have their own families. My younger brother works as a teacher in a Chinese school and has his own family.
VOCL: How and when did you come to Menri Monastery in India?
His Holiness: My main objective, and most of the Bonpo people's main objective in leaving Tibet and coming to India, is because after the cultural revolution, all of the great teachers like Ponlop Rinpoche [His Eminence Menri Lopon Trinley Nyima Rinpoche], Menri Trizin [His Holiness Lungtok Tenpai Nyima Rinpoche] and Yongdzin Rinpoche [His Eminence Yongdzin Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche] are all located in India. So Bonpos leaving for India all want to get the teachers' blessings and their teachings and transmissions and lung. I was 25 years old when I first came to India.
VOCL: Who were your main teachers?
His Holiness: Before I came to India I had trained to become a geshe in Tibet. I received my geshe degree at Gamel Yungdrung Dargyal Ling Monastery, located in my village. During that time my lopon was Yeshe Gyeltsen. My initial training, starting with learning the alphabet, was at Yungdrung Ling Monastery in Shigatse Prefecture in Tibet. Geshe Dratok Pelchen Kyapchok was my very first teacher.
When I arrived in India my main teacher was the 33rd Menri Trizin, and Ponlop Trinley Nyima was my other main teacher. There also were my teacher at the dialectic school and several other teachers as well. But my main teacher was the 33rd Menri Trizin.
VOCL: Would you share a story of your experience with His Holiness, the 33rd Menri Trizin?
His Holiness: We are both from the same village and province. When I first came to Menri Monastery, the 33rd Menri Trizin had high hopes for me. He became very happy that I had come. I had already finished my geshe degree in Tibet, and I had still come to India to continue my development. So maybe that's one of the reasons he had great expectations of me.
Once I was there, the 33rd Menri Trizin gave me many responsibilities and duties, and I tried to perform and fulfill all of those duties and responsibilities. Initially I was given the responsibility of cleaning the rooms, the gompa, the compound and the surrounding area. I did that. Then I was put in the kitchen to cook for the lamas and do the dishes. I did that. Then I was also asked to run errands outside the compound. I did that. Then I was appointed as the administrative assistant. I did that. So wherever I was sent, I worked hard to perform all of the duties required of me for that position.
VOCL: Was there a learning process for you to be able to grow into your role as 34th Menri Trizin? When the 33rd Menri Trizin was selected, for several months the lamas gave him empowerments, transmissions and instructions. Did you have to do something similar?
His Holiness: There is a long tradition at Menri. And the view, meditation and activities all have to be performed according to that tradition. Once I was appointed, my very first task was to renew and take again all of the monastic vows that I had taken already. It's not like I could say, “Okay, today I am now the Menri Trizin, so now I have all of the power to give the wang [empowerment], the initiations and transmission.” No, I needed to get permission from others to be able to do that. So I went to Yongdzin Rinpoche to get those permissions. And I went to another teacher to get permission to do the transmissions and the wang and the lung and all. I had already gotten them from the 33rd Menri Trizin, but I still had to seek permission from these other individuals to be fully qualified.
VOCL: We know that you have many responsibilities as the 34th Menri Trizin. Would you tell us what you do on a typical day at Menri?
His Holiness: Since I have been appointed, I have had no free day. Every day there are visitors getting blessings or simply just coming to visit. And the nunnery, the dialectic school and so on all have their own supervisors, but for the final decision-making, they come and ask me.
VOCL: You have been touring the U.S. and you've visited many countries, including Ligmincha’s center in Poland. Soon you will visit Mexico. How have your visits been?
His Holiness: Overall, it has been very much the same. I have been going to all the Bön centers. From Tibet, though, I am so used to hearing people chanting Dechen Gyalpo, the prayer of Nyame Sherap Gyaltsen. I found that at most of the centers in the West, they do not recite that. That was a little surprising for me.
VOCL: What's the most interesting part of your job?
His Holiness: I mostly like to meditate whenever I get the time to do that. I like to read my prayer book. I like to be a little peaceful and calm. When I have lots of visitors, though, I end up chatting with them, and it can move this peacefulness some! [laughter]
VOCL: You are the head of the entire Bön lineage. Is it lonely at the top?
His Holiness: At times it can feel lonely, but then I go out and mingle with my attendants and chat. So it's not often, yet, that I feel lonely.
VOCL: We are not here at Serenity Ridge and Ligmincha International because we are enlightened. We all need to work on ourselves. What advice do you have for best doing that as practitioners?
His Holiness: With hard work, honesty, sincerity and a good motivation, and being very harmonious.
VOCL: We are very attached to the ego here in the West. What do you prescribe for breaking this attachment, which blocks our progress on the path?
His Holiness: The opposite of the ego is peace. So if you think that you are getting agitated or very upset, you have to recognize that, and you have to control yourself and have patience.
VOCL: What is your vision for the spreading of Bön in the West?
His Holiness: My vision is to help others and to support others to be better, and to better bring peace and harmony into this world through the Bön teachings.
VOCL: You came to Serenity Ridge back in 2013, and now you are here again. How has the experience of being here changed since your first visit?
His Holiness: The difference is that when I came here in 2013, I came as an attendant for the 33rd Menri Trizin, and now I come as the 34th Menri Trizin! I am very happy to see all of the progress and development here – the new buildings, all of the surroundings. When I was here as an attendant in 2013, I was not paying very much attention to how people were practicing. Now, I am paying special attention to how people are practicing and how they are taking the teachings. It's very interesting, and I am very happy with how we are all doing the practices and meditation. I am very happy to see that!
VOCL: Thank you so much for traveling so far and wide to be with Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche's students. Please know that you are always welcome here, and that we would love to see you again whenever you can possibly make the trip back.
His Holiness: The way that I feel is that I am not even 50 yet, and as long as I have the energy I will come and visit! I will go wherever people invite me. When I get to Yongdzin Rinpoche's age, then I might be a little challenged to travel. Until then, though, wherever I am invited, I will go! [smiles]
VOCL: Thuk-je-che! (Thank you!)
